6400 Voodoo 2/3 info page

This page contains info on using a 3dfx Voodoo2/3 with the 6400. Please feel free to send me your experiences. I'm affraid I won't be able to post my own experiences as the Voodoo3 would not work with my Vimage at all! Well, I guess that was my experience :(

Voodoo2 card installed in my 6400

Gaming News - this is a page on Accelerate Your Mac's site. It has a bunch of tips and help on getting the most out of todays 3D games.
www.mac3dfx.com - This site comes from the host of Accelerate Your mac. It has the most info I have seen on getting 3dfx's Voodoo cards running smooth on your Mac.

Apples Gaming page - Apple's Gaming page with lots of links to great demos to try!

 

Quake III Arena stratagy guide - this might help you learn the tricks that are getting you killed :)

Patch TombRaiderII for a Voodoo2/3 card - Here is a patch to get TR2 running on a Voodoo2/3 card

Patch StarWars Pod racer for a Voodoo3 card - Here is a patch for both the demo and retail version of Pod Racer to get it working with a Voodoo3 card. Not sure if it will work for a Voodoo2?

Voodoo3 beta 12 drivers - best drivers I found for the Voodoo3. Not available from 3dfx anymore since they are out of business :(

Voodoo3 in a 6400/6500 8/20/1999: I have received several requests for info on running a Voodoo3 card in a 6400/6500. I'll start posting info here until it gets too large. So far it seems to not be compatible with any L2 G3 which makes the speed of the Voodoo3 useless for us :( a Voodoo2 would be a better purchase or the new Rage 128's.

1/5/2000 Update: I do have several 6400/6500 G3 users running the Voodoo3 now with some interesting fixes. They are located near the end of this section. So after you read all the trouble everyone had then find out how you might get it to work :)

3DFX releases Voodoo 3 drivers!: While ATI may be having issues 3DFX is taking advantage of it. it didn't take long for them to get the Voodoo3 drivers out. only a few weeks ago did they release the Voodoo2 drivers for the Mac. Click here to get them.

I found this info on Accelerate Your Mac:

[NOTE: A 6500 owner commented the PC Voodoo3 w/Dev. Drivers are not working properly. This may be the same issue as seen with the Orion cards so I caution owners of 44/54/64/6500 macs (and starmax owners) to wait until the Mactell cards are released.]

and then later saw this:

[Tip for Onboard Video/One Monitor Users: Nathan Aschbacher sent a tip for 6500 and other onboard video Macs (beige G3s included) that are using a mac-to-vga adapter. Remember to remove any Mac/VGA adapter from the onboard video port when you switch over to the Voodoo3, otherwise the mac thinks the old port still has a monitor connected to it. Thanks for sending the tip Nathan! [The 6500 owner that reported problems before said this tip solved it]

and yet another update:

["Hi Mike,
This is a further update as to how the Voodoo 3 is coming along in my 6500. After removing the VGA connector, I couldn't run my Mac for more than 15 minutes. Usually, after 5 to 10 minutes, it'll just freeze. My fix for this was to zap the PRAM, rebuild the desktop, and put the ATI drivers into the extensions disabled folder. There seems to be no more freezes even after 2 hours of normal use. I also managed to play UNREAL for just over 2 hours without a problem. Really seems to be working out super now. Thanks for all your input and help! :) Regards,
Tiong Chen "]

This means the Voodoo3 cards from 3DFX work on the 6500 so they probably work on the 6400 as well. Looks like it fits in the case too which could mean my Voodoo2 card will also fit. I had mentioned before that I wasn't sure if it would and installed it in my PCI chassi. The one thing to remember as noted above that the Voodoo3 is a full blown 2D/3D card so it requires its own monitor because it has no pass thru port like the previous Voodoo cards. Since the 6400 has no on board video acceleration and the 6500 only has the old Rage II, I don't think it will hurt many people to move their monitor to the Voodoo3 card for lightning performance. The only problem is for those of you that still use Apples TV/video system which relies on a monitor being plugged into the stock port. You will need 2 monitors in this case or have to swap the cable and reboot to get the best of each world.

On a side note, once ATI gets their act together and get their Rage128 cards out and compatible with the 6400 then their VR cards are a good substitiute for both the onboard TV/video and a Voodoo2 card. Yes the Voodoo3 is faster but I find the Voodoo2 very nice at this time and the Rage128 is on on par or slightly faster then a Voodoo2. Depends on what games your playing :) I may be getting a Voodoo3 to try out for myself though.

Links to Accelerate Your Macs info on 3DFX info: Mike asked me to post some links to his site which has probably the best info on 3DFX and the Mac.

http://www.mac3dfx.com

The Voodoo3 seems to be slightly faster then the Rage 128 Orion from ATI and it does work on the 6500 and possibly 6400. Since its so cheap this may be a good substitute for those waiting on ATI. To get Rave to work you'll need to download the Voodoo2 drivers from 3DFX and only place the Rave extension in your extensions folder. Also here is a link to a petition he has started to make Apple more aware of how many people would like 3DFX products on their Macs. Specially iMacs!

http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/petition/3dfxpetition.lasso

His main site is xlr8yourmac.com which tracks, as if you can't tell, anything that has to do with speeding up that old Mac, or a new Mac :)

8/14/1999 How to flash a Voodoo3 to work on a Mac from Accelerate Your Mac: I got this info from Mike of Accelerate Your Mac and thought it would be of use to any of you trying to get a Voodoo3 to work on your 6400. The extensions he mentions for getting OpenGL to work on these cards can be found on his other site www.mac3dfx.com. Also not that it has been mentioned that the Rave driver that is installed with 3dfx's Voodoo2 drivers works with their Voodoo3 drivers. But remember Mikes NOTE that the other Voodoo2 drivers will not work with the Voodoo3. Thanks Mike.

[How to Flash a PC Voodoo3 2000 PCI Card:

1. Insert the Voodoo3 2000 PCI card in your Mac. Make sure you have some other video card installed since until the flash ROM is updated, you'll get no video from the Voodoo3 card.

2. Run the 3dfx Voodoo3 flasher utility which will automatically find the Voodoo3 card and update the ROM to the Mac version. It will offer you the option to save the existing PC ROM image file in case you want to ever run the card in a PC again. Make sure you save your PC Bios to disk! - you only get one chance to do this and that's on the first flash. After that the card no longer has the PC firmware of course.

3. After flashing the ROM, copy the 3dfx extensions (2d accelerator, resource manager, Glide 2 and Glide 3 extensions) into your system folder Extensions folder and restart.

4. Upon rebooting your Voodoo3 card should be working fine and providing video out. For Opengl games like Quake2 and Q3test, you'll need the Mesa extensions as are required for other 3dfx cards in OpenGL games. The latest Quake2 refGL lib (mirrored here) and MesaQuake2 update also provide multitexturing for Quake 2 with the Voodoo3 as well as the Voodoo2.

5. Note: The Glide2 and Glide3 extensions for the Voodoo3 are different than the Voodoo2 (at least revision/size wise) and you can't use the Voodoo2 extensions with the Voodoo3. ]

6500 owner issue with Voodoo3 card: Well now that I have mentioned that the card does work and also posted how to make it work I have to post some news that it may still have trouble! Craig writes that he cannot get it to work on his 6500. Please email him if you have any suggestions. Thanks.

[I have a PM 6500 running on OS 8.6 and I just purchased a new Voodoo3 2000 PCI video card. The problem is I can't get the computer to recognize it. I installed it last night and ran into a few strange occurrences. Below is my steps I took and the results:

1) Installed the Voodoo3 into PCI slot, reset board by pressing the curda (?) button, and restarted computer
2) Apple System Profiler identifies the board in the PCI slot as a PC compatible card.
5) Hop on the web and download the Beta drivers from 3dfx.
6) Zap ROM with downloaded software and install drivers to the extension folder.
7) Restart computer with monitor plugged into video card.
8) Computer boots up, no video.
9) Restart computer with monitor connected to old video port.
10) 3dfx extension does not load (x-ed out).
11) Now I have video (with old video port) but System Profiler doesn't recognize new video card or even the PCI slot it's in.
12) Zap PRAM, rebuild desktop - still nothing.
13) Hop on the web and search for help at 3dfx and various forums - find nothing.
14) Disconnect from web. - This is where it get strange. -
15) Apple System Profiler now recognizes Voodoo3 card as a Mac compatible card. (Maybe the card needed to warm but I think the Voodoo3 version did away with vacuum tubes right?)
16) Shut down, connect monitor to Voodoo card and boot up.
17) Extension boots, video works but I'm unable to change monitor resolution.
18) Shut down and restart 10 min later.
19) Back to not finding the Voodoo card and not loading extensions or not even identifying both PCI slots..

I've tried plugging it into the other PCI slot but still get nothing. I've booted with extensions disabled, 8.6 base extensions but I still can't get the computer to recognize the Voodoo card. One thing I plan to do tonight is to take the card out and see if the system will identify the both empty PCI slots. Does anyone have any other tips? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Craig.]

8/20/1999 Voodoo3 issues with G3 upgraded 6400/6500 MACs: I feel like the 6400 era is coming to an end :( Not only was the latest greatest ATI Rage 128 not compatible at the moment but either is the Voodoo3 card from 3dfx!

Now I hear it does work with the G3's disabled but you have to disable 2D acceleration with Sonnets G3 and Vimages just plain doesn't work so far! The following are some letters I have received on this topic. Thanks guys. Click here to read more on the Voodoo3 card.

[Hi Tom,

I've just visited your site (a link from AccelerateyourMac!) and have found that you posted my tips for getting stability for 6500 owners with G3 and V3. I just want to let you know that I was able to get that kind of stability for only the first day. After that, my 6500 has been very unstable. Startups are always fine, but I can use my Mac for only a few minutes (5 max!) before it totally freezes. I've tried many, many things and even workarounds suggested by other 6500 users at Mac3dfx.com but I still have that stability problem. One thing I am sure of is that whenever I have the 3dfx Hardware Resource Mgr and the (Sonnet's) Crescendo 1.3.7 extensions enabled at the same time, there will be freezes. If either one is not enabled at the same time, I have no problems, but then performance will suffer. Since there are many others who have been successful in getting their G3 upgraded Macs (err... not our upgrade-challenged models) to run with V3, I've come to the conclusion (though I may be wrong) that there may be incompatibilities with the above mentioned extensions. I have e-mailed Sonnet to ask them to look into it. Maybe it has something to do with our G3s in the L2 slot? I really don't know. But please caution your readers that they may still want to wait before upgrading to V3. V2 rocks though! : )

Regards,
Tiong Chen]

[I have a PowerMac 6500/250 upgraded with a Vimage PF G3/240(225 in 6500) card. Also, installed is a v3 2000 3dfx card and Mac OS 8.5.1. I am experiencing the 1" white square block during startup, however, it doesn't go away! Once the extension is reached, the square shows up and I hear my computer continue to load and then stop as if it finished but nothing shows up. No picture, no background, no nada! This forces a reboot disabling the G3 extension! Any ideas on how to fix this problem would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.]

On a side note, the Voodoo2 card from 3dfx runs just fine on my 6400. Even being almost 2" over the 6400's PCI length spec is ok. I have the passthru connected to the stock monitor port so I don't have any 2D acceleration which is what the Voodoo3 is great for but I do get to play Quake2 and Quake3 plus Unreal in all their glory with good frame rates. And it works with both Vimages and Sonnets G3's. Remember though that in order to play most of these games you really need a G3 and lots of RAM! my 6400 with 136M of RAM was not an issue but my other only having 56M was not enough. I had to use RamDoubler to increase it to 140M untill I stopped getting Mesa3dfxEngine out of memory errors! Well when Unreal demands 90+ megs what do you expect! I wouldn't waste your money on these high end cards unless you plan on upgrading the rest of your system too.

Craig got his Voodoo3 to work finally: Craig email me last week saying that his Voodoo3 card seemed to almost ruin his mother board! He was having some weird PCI issues but it has all cleared up now. I don't think he has a G3 upgrade, or at least he never mentioned it.

[I want to thank you for posting my request for help on my new Voodoo3 card. It now works with no problems. I can't identify what the problem was or what I did that corrected it but it is now running smoothly. Very weird. I removed the card and tried to get System Profiler to recognize the EMPTY PCI slot with no luck. Now I began to worry that I might have zapped the circuits during my troubleshooting (static discharge). I replaced the Voodoo card once again and still couldn't get the computer to identify the slot or the card. The last thing I did was to download a copy of PCI Prober from the Pure Mac site. After running this, the card was recognized by both PCI Prober and Apple System Profiler. The card has been working well with my 6500 ever since. I don't know if it was the software that activated the slot or if the card finally seated or if the planets finally aligned just right but I now have a working Voodoo3 2000 card in my 6500.
Thanks,
Craig]

8/27/1999 Voodoo3 will not work with ANY L2 G3: I just got word from Sheldon that he found postings that even Newers G3 didn't work with the Voodoo3 :( I guess this makes it unanimous. I have now recieved info from people owning all 3 L3 G3's and none of them seem to work flawlessly. Thanks Sheldon.

[I've read one post in the xlr8 3dfx forums that the Newer G3-L2 did NOT work with Voodoo 3.

Yes, I'll check the site for NewerTech news as I'm trying to keep tabs on compatibility with this paticular card before I take the plunge. I'm trying very hard to keep this old 6500 running, but a B&W is probably not too far off for me. I pushed the timing on upgrading about as far as I can go =).
Cheers Tom!
Sheldon]

9/11/1999 Voodoo3 works with Sonnet G3?: Figures just after I report it doesn't work I get a report it does :) I recieved a letter from Yann who has a French version of OS 8.6 and has the Voodoo3 running with his Sonnet G3. Thanks for the info Yann. I wonder if its more a 6500 G3 issue then a 6400 G3 issue as the reports I got that said the Sonnet G3 didn't work with the Voodoo3 were from 6500 owners. If anyone else has a 6400/6500 with the Voodoo3 I would love to here how its working.

[Hi,
your site is great, i would like to report that i have a 6400/180 with french os 8.6 and sonnet's l2 g3 upgrade (240 mhz)with last crescendo driver and it work well with my new Voodoo 3/2000, with last beta 2 drivers from 3dfx.


To install it, 1st don't forget to delete all other useless drivers,and don't forget to press reset button on the motherboard.


After changing the Rom of the card, i started my computer 1st without 3dfx drivers to test, it worked (without acceleration of course).


Then put drivers, but the way 3dfx drivers are loaded after crescendo drivers.Oh yes and since i removed the modem (useless now)my computer don't crash with sonnet's card (just freeze sometimes at startup, once a day, never during normal use, oh yes one day it freezed for 10 minutes and unfreezed itself ... i don't know how ???)


and it seems to work. 2d acceleration is not perfect (but great in comparison of inboard video, and great for a beta stage), but i could use photoshop, starcraft, word ... 3d is great.
Hope theses information could help someone,
thanks again,
Yann]

10/14/1999 More Voodoo3 info with Sonnets G3 upgrade: Yann sent me some more info on his setup. He is running a French version of OS 8.6 and is the only person to have the Voodoo3 and a L2 G3 running together that I know of. If anyone else can get them to run together please write me. Click here for more info on the Voodoo3.

[Hi,
Me again, the guy who posted the information about 6400 with L2 upgrade and Voodoo 3.
Here is my report ...
Since i use this configuration for maybe 2 weeks now i would like to report some few things ...

1- It seems to work well, but i don't know if this come from the voodoo 3 or else, but it seems my computer freeze time to time. But this is not quite important, since when the computer freeze, you have to press apple key and power key at the same time. Then you have a window with ... you have to press G key ther return, then the processor receive the instruction to enable all process. All application will unfreeze and work well, without any crash.
Last time i played to starcraft (for 2/3 hours) i hade to do this 10 times without any problem.
NB : i think the problem depend of the application you are using, since it never do this under word or excel, never under unreal, time to time with painter, everytime with starcraft. I will signal the problem to 3dfx but before i will test this with aclean OS.

2- Performances : are strange, with norton, it seems the card is incredible in some task and not better than in board video for other task, put the general use seems great in 2d, incredible under 3d (but i thin 40mhz bus speed still slow the card). I now have better performances than an Imac rev b (233mhz) and better video.

3- Monitor : if you have a standard VGA (pc) connector, the card will work great, but if you have, like me an apple monitor, you'll need an adaptator. You'll also have stranges resolutions and frequencies, so i think a software like " switch resolution" could be of some uses, there you will be able to set some parameters (max resolution and frequencies).

That's all for time,
wish this could help some people.
Yann]

10/30/1999 Voodoo3 and Sonnet G3 may work together?: I received some info from a user that has both running on his 6400/200 and he says he has no problems! Previously Sonnet users have told me that with the 2D driver enabled you get crashes after about 5min. Here is a list of version numbers he was running. Please let me know if anyone else gets this working. Thanks. Click here for more Voodoo3 and 6400/6500 info.

[No problem. The following versions are on the 6400/200:

Mac OS 8.6
Apple Open GL 1.0
Mesa3dfxEngine 3.1b6
Sonnet Crescendo 1.37
3dfx Voodoo 3 2000 drivers Beta 5, Flashed the ROM for a 2000 card
Quake 3 Arena Alpha (q3test) 1.08

If there are more recent versions of these things I'd be amazed... most of them I downloaded last week, except for the OpenGL and Sonnet driver.]

11/4/1999 Update on Voodoo3 cards and L2 G3 upgrades?: I have been getting info mostly stating that they are not compatible but I have had a few letters of success? The ones that are able to get it to work are the 6400 owners. All the 6500 owners have told me its not fully compatible? I wonder if its due to the onboard ATI or some other small difference thats causing the trouble? 6500 owners might try removing the ATI extensions to see if that helps? I'm not saying it works 100% on the 6400 but 6400 users are having more luck with it.

Speaking of which, here is a letter from Cryil who received info from another 6400 user that got them working. Thanks.

[Hello again....
I received an answer about the Vimage card and the V3 2000. Here is what I was told:
"Yeah, It really works!! I've had no problems at all. I have memory to the max, and run both Mac OS 8.6 and 9.0 without a hitch. I am using the Voodoo 3, 2000. Beta 4 or 5 drivers and extensions, and teh RAVE extension from Voodoo 2 Beta drivers. Also am using the Mesa engine for Open Gl. All works like a charm. Big speed boost. Norton shows overall video speed equivilent to G3 450.
Good luck.
John"

Maybe I won't buy a G4 before it becomes multiprocessor after all.....
Cyril]

Edward sends word that his Voodoo3 is not working on his Newer L2 G3 upgraded PowerBase180 which is 6400 mother board based. Sigh!

[My PowerBase 180 ("6400 motherboard"), upgraded with Newer Maxpowr G3/L2 300/512 kb and V3 2000 PCI, does the same crash looking freeze in 3D mode. But this is NOT a crash - wait for from about a minute to half an hour, and suddenly everything continues as nothing had happened. Until it pauses again. And starts to work again... I have done this for hours without a restart. No problems at all when using the original 180 MHz 603ev by deselecting the G3/L2 extension. And even Yann has seen this "freeze" at least once...]

11/12/1999 Update Voodoo3 and the Sonnet G3: Here is a letter from one 6400 user that has the Voodoo3 running and with a Sonnet G3. Also note fix he has for the boot hangs. Interesting! These video cards sure don't play nice. I can't tell what systems they will or will not work on?

[Tom -
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I have to admit, I couldn't wait so I bought the Voodoo3 at CompUSA last night. I was pleasantly surprised at the $99 price tag, since I thought it was $30-40 more, and figured there was minimal risk since products are usually returnable at CompUSA. I downloaded the beta drivers from 2 days ago, flashed the ROM, looked for ATI drivers to remove but there were none installed with my Mac OS 9. I then shutdown the system, found an adapter in my Mac parts that probably came with one of my Mac monitors, so I used it to attach the AppleVision 1705 to the V3. I then followed your excellent take apart instructions looking to remove the stock video board, and determined as you confirmed today that I wasn't going to be successful. I then put everything back together, crossed my fingers and said my prayers, and couldn't believe it when it came up. The 2D capabilities seem very good to me as a neophyte, but I really started all this because I wanted more than the stock 256 colors. The refreshes under Virtual PC 3.0 are much quicker, and of course I have the higher color definitions under Windows95 now as well. I've not tried any 3D activity, so I'll have to shop around for a game to try out (I'm not really a gamer, but I do have F18 Hornet, Myst, and Raven).

One thought I do have for your readers on the Sonnet Crescendo L2 300/1M. I was starting to get a lot of boot hangs, and have suspected it was related to tightening the two screws that hold the motherboard in. I think the fit is such that it torques the Crescendo if one does a normal tightening of these screws. I've pushed my board in without any additional force, and have tightened the screws just to the point that they start to grab the plastic. You could turn them with the force of a finger to take them out now, but I now am back to solid on the boots. And this is with the addition of the Voodoo3. For now this is my theory on the Sonnet board, and I'll let you know if it starts hanging again.
Regards,
- Frank]

11/19/1999 Voodoo3 and G3 Upgraded 6400's: Here is a clip I got from Mikes Accelerate Your Mac web site. Seems he has had only Newer G3 card owners report good news.

[L2 Cache Slot G3 Upgraded Macs: Although Sonnet L2 cache slot G3 card owners reported consistent problems, several Newer Tech cache slot G3 upgrade owners all report running the card fine.]

Here is a letter from Kamen who also states the Voodoo3 and Newer work together. Thanks Kamen

[As an eternal quest to perfect my 6400 I was compelled to put down good money ($110 including EMS shipping all the way from sunny California to Malaysia!) to try out a Voodoo3 2000. This is of course, after much persuasion from reading all the success stories posted on your remarkable website.

I've received the PCI card just today and giddily went through the ROM flashing two-step, which turned out to be a no-brainer. Having done that I restarted the MAChine.

The stuff works on first bootup! I whispered a few words of gratitude to the ghost in the Performa box and fired up Tomb Raider III demo.

Now I'm considered quite a big guy, but I broke into tears. The game was better than a Back to The Future ride. Next came Unreal, which was exactly what the title implied... times 5. Now I can finally laugh at G3 B/W PowerMac users who paid too much and got just an ATI Rage 128.

My MAChine is a Performa 6400/200, upgraded to G3 300mhz thanks to Newertech. System software is OS9. (Reserve a copy today!)

A few words of advice if you intend to run Video CDs on the 3DFX Voodoo3.There appears to be no speed boost or picture enhancement to MPEG-1 video quality. The only way you can get halfway decent playback is if you set Color Depth to 16-bit and turn on High Quality Enabled from within the Get Info box. Even then, you won't be getting ATI Rage-anything kind of picture quality. Unfortunately I also found QuickTime 4 movie playback to be quite sluggish. That so far is the biggest letdown, next to--

THE BIGASS 747 ENGINE NOISE COMING FROM THE POWER SUPPLY FAN.

Now will somebody please help me shut the {edited - Tom} thing up?
Kamen]

12/3/1999 Newer G3 and Voodoo3 working: As I have mentioned before it seems the Voodoo3 and Newer G3 are the most stable combination of Voodoo3 and L2 G3 card. Craig writes that he has had this setup for a few months with only minor issues. Some system freezes that he can't really blame on the setup. We all have some freezes from time to time though, right :( Here is a clip of his letter. Thanks Craig.

[- PM 6500 with NewerTech G3-L2 300/150/512 card.
- 128 MB RAM.
- OS 8.6.
- 3dfx Voodoo3 2000 PCI card flashed to Mac ROM and using beta 9 drivers.
- Belkin 2 port USB PCI card.
- Supra 56k external modem.
- SCSI ZIP
- SCSI CD-RW

I've had the Voodoo card installed for about 3 months now. I had some initial problems in getting it installed but after you posted my request, I received much help and got it working within a day or two (still don't know the problem or what I did to fix it, it probably wasn't seated right or something). Other than the known issues of unsupported QuickTime and RAVE acceleration, I don't have much to complain about. I chose the unsupported $60 card and drivers over the (now defunct) $150 Mactell cards.]

12/17/1999 Voodoo3 on a Newer G3 accelerated 6400 update: Bryan sends word that his 6400 with Newers G3 is running with a Voodoo3 ok. Later he sent a more info stating that he had to reflash the ROM because it may have gotten corrupted? Thanks for the info Bryan.

[ Well, I bit the bullet and bought the card this weekend. Setting it up was very easy - even flashing the ROM was a snap. Once the ROM was installed for Mac and the 3dfx extensions were dropped in the system folder, I just rebooted and the monitor came up fine... well, almost...

My primary monitor is the old Apple 16" color display, which has long since passed into obsolescence. It's a fixed frequency 832x624. And guess what ONE frequency the 3dfx Voodoo 2000 card doesn't support... you guessed it - mine. So I moved my old NEC 14" display over onto the card and rebooted. Came up like a champ.

I loaded and ran Unreal Tournament demo on the new card and, let me just say, WOW! With images and details at highest quality, it is still faster than my old Rage Pro 4mb card running at medium detail and images quality. Glide was an excellent name for this technology... my game just glides through the scenery.

The only problem I have encountered, except for my old monitor of course, is that my 14" NEC, which is also old, has a difficult time keeping it's sync. However, I think that's in the monitor. Like I said, it's old. It seems heat related in the monitor.

So far, no complaints.
For the record, I'll include the specs on FrankenMac again.

Performa 6400/180
Newer Technology G3/L2 Chip 300/200/1mb
136mb ram
8gb IDE hd
Asante 10/100 ethernet
3dfx Voodoo 2000 card
Apple 8x CD-Rom drive
Yamaha 4416s CD-RW (internal)
Apple TV Tuner card
Apple Video In card
External Zip drive
Microtek scanner
Dual monitors (NEC 14", Apple 16")
Epson Stylus 850
US Robotics v.90 modem
Amplified speakers

Thanks for all your help and information. I'll keep you posted on further developments.
Bryan]

Then he sent this.

[I am using the latest Voodoo3 drivers, as well as the latest ROM file. Interesting thing last night. The card has been working fine for several days now, but when I fired up my computer last night, the Voodoo card would not run. Only the stock video would fire up. No biggie, but it was odd. I reinstalled the ROM and rebooted, and the Voodoo card came right up. This may have something to do with Quake 3 Arena demo. I downloaded it and ran it once the other night, and after playing a little while, it locked up. Since then, I haven't been able to run it. I have tried several times and when it goes to load the game file, it just hangs and I have to force reboot. I'm thinking having to do that a few times may have scrambled the ROM on the card. You never know...
Bryan]

Possible fix to get a Voodoo3 running on a Sonnet G3 accelerated 6500: Tiong sends word that he found a fix to get a Voodoo3 and an ATI Rage128 Orion to work on his 6500 just by having a PC-MAC monitor adapter left on the stock port! It seems that the 6500 wants to think it still is using the stock port even if you just want to use a video card. You will need 2 monitors to start but after following Tiongs instructions on how to move the Happy Mac and menu bar to your new graphics card you can remove the second monitor and place a monitor adapter on the stock port so it always thinks it has one there. Nice fix. Thanks Tiong.

[ Hi Tom,
One of xlr8yourmac.com's readers, mie (AKA miero in 3dfxgamers.com's forum), has found a fix for the L2G3/V3 bug. Apparently, the on-board ATI is the problem (just like you suspected quite sometime back). Running a dual monitor setup is his suggestion and sure enough, my Sonnet 6500 crashes no more with V3!

How to set it up: first you need another monitor. Any working monitor should do fine. Hook up this monitor with the on-board ATI and your main monitor with your V3 (if that's what you prefer). Bootup and use the Monitor & Sounds control panel to drag the menu and smiling Mac icon over to your V3 monitor. This will make the V3 monitor the startup monitor. And if you do not like the monitor hooked up with the on-board ATI and have no use for it once this is done, you can detach this (when your Mac is off) and just add a Mac-VGA monitor adapter to the on-board ATI. This works on my system for most of the time except when you want to zap the PRAM, when you'll have to hook up that second monitor to your on-board again.

PRAM zapping: with the on-board monitor hooked up and turned on (the thing I describe here doesn't work with the on-board monitor off on my 6500), go through the normal PRAM zap routine. You'll see the smiling Mac on your on-board monitor starting up. As the extensions are just about to load, the Mac OS startup screen should jump to your V3 monitor and you'll see the extensions loading up. After startup is complete, you can shut down and detach the on-board monitor, leaving just the Mac-VGA adapter.

Note: if I zap PRAM on my system without the second monitor attached and turned on, the menu, etc., will not come back onto my V3 monitor.

Also, this work around works for my Rage Orion too, although now that my V3 is running, I've got no use for it what so ever. I'm willing to part it for $100 since it's hardly been used. Oh yeah, the ATI Xclaim 3D Plus is going for $70.00 (this is one week younger than my 3, almost 4 weeks old Rage Orion, although total time spent in my 6500 amounts to like less than 16 hours!) Click here to email Tiong on these offers.

I think that since the V3 and the Rage Orion can run with this setup now, I can only conclude that the on-board ATI is the culprit for all my PCI graphics card woes! The only thing I don't understand is why V2 is not affected. Maybe it's because it's a Voodoo? (!)
Regards,
Tiong]

12/24/1999 Sonnets driver 1.4.1b1 may cure Voodoo3 issues?: Tiong wrote me before with news that running a dual monitor setup or with a Mac/PC adaptor on the stock port that he was able to get the Voodoo3 card to work on his Sonnet upgraded 6500. Well now he says he can ditch the second monitor as the Crescendo 1.4.1b1 seems to have cured it for him. Thanks Tiong.

[Hi Tom,
More info about V3 in my Sonnet 6500. Seems like the new beta Crescendo may work with V3 without the dual monitor setup! I was able to run MacBench 5.0 for 6 hours last night (on Demo run under "Tests") continuously without any problems! Usually, the V3 will fail running just the Graphics test. This maybe good news for those without access to a second monitor. Will be running more tests to see if the new Crescendo (or maybe it's a combination of the new Crescendo and the Sonnet Clocker hack?) is finally coming to terms with V3 without having to stress the on-board ATI! Will keep you up to date! : )
Regards,
Tiong]

1/8/2000 Voodoo3 on a Vimage upgraded 6400: Well I finally got a Voodoo3 thanks to one of my readers :) My first thought was to try it on my 6400 upgraded with Vimages 320 G3 of course. I followed all the instructions to flash the ROM to Mac and I also disabled the G3 just to make sure everything was fine. Well on the 1st boot it worked great! Both the Voodoo3 and my old ATI VR card were working fine together (I have 2 monitors running). It felt somewhat faster but remember the G3 is still off. So turn it on. NOPE! Once Vimage sent its softboot signal, both monitors went black and the status LED on the ATI cards monitor actually turned RED? I didn't think this was good so I tried to turn the computer off but had to hit the shutdown button in the back. I put everything back as before and it all still works ok. So I cannot get the Voodoo3 to work on my 6400 with Vimages G3.

1/16/2000 More Voodoo3 and L2 G3 info from Tiong: Tiong sent me some more info on what might be going on with the 6400/6500 and a Voodoo3/L2 G3 combo. Thanks Tiong.

[Hi Tom,

" What has happened so far: G3L2 upgraded macs with the Voodoo3 card suffer from crashes and/or freezes. Users have tried many fixes. The only one fix reported to kill this bug so far is the usage of another monitor in the on-board ati. An adaptor can be used then to replace the second (ati) monitor, and the bug still stays away.


Speeding reported that after some PRAM zapping and unplugging/replugging the 2. monitor his setup started to work without any monitor or adaptor in the ati socket, hence the name 2Speedings blessing2. It took me a while to get the urge to play this bug game again, because I had a working setup already with a adaptor in ati. The adaptor that I bought solely for this purpose is the kind of which has those dip switches on it. This type of an adaptor can fool the mac to think there1s a monitor plugged instead even through the NVPRAM zap.


So I tested, among other stupid things, these:


zap NVPRAM without an adapter > Display Preferences in Resedit says 1 monitor, bug present


zap NVPRAM with an adapter > removed the adapter > Display Preferences in Resedit says 2 monitor, bug dead


No hot swaps, of course and the NVPRAM zap from cold boot.


The Display Preferences Resedit 2scrn2 contains an item named 231142, and the first line tells you the number of displays the preferences think is appropriate. In my setup, if this is one device, I get 3D freezes. If it is 2 devices, I get no troubles.


So to kill this G3L2 bug, install a video adaptor which is capable of forcing to be recognised (= dip switches?) or another monitor. Remove the old 2Display Preferences2 file (not sure if necessary, but I did). Shut down. Start the mac and IMMEDIATELY press the cmd-opt-p-r to achieve the NVPRAM. Shut down, remove the adaptor/monitor. Start the mac, and you have a single monitor G3L2 without the V3 bug.
Good luck!


To Speeding:
This trick should not survive a NVPRAM zap without an adaptor/monitor. Speeding, have you zapped your mac from the cold boot after removing the monitor? And would you like to see what the Resedit says from your Display Preferences."


The title of this post is "Speedings blessing confirmed and explained (big talk...)" posted by miero, and the title of the thread is "A probable and a possible fix to G3L2/ati bug" posted by miero also.

I have also posted some replies to this post and I must add that the info I presented conflicts with miero's explanation and we are both unable to come up with an answer. Also, miero is unable to duplicate my "Display Preferences" using Resedit so he can't use a single monitor setup as I can. However, he is using a dual monitor setup with no problems and his second monitor is actually an adapter.

Another good news is that "williegunn" reported no problems with his V3 and Sonnet 500MHz G3 (I'm jealous!). I believe he is running a dual monitor setup and has it that way the first day he put his V3 to use.

Other notes: speeding is me! Also, if you have time, this thread is a pretty long trouble-shooting thread for L2G3 users and I think it'll be a good read for anyone with L2G3 and thinking of using a V3 or having problems with V3.

Sorry this e-mail is so very super long! ;-P
Regards,
Tiong]

Just to note that I posted a little while ago that I tried the Voodoo3 with Vimages G3 and it did not work at all! 2 monitors or not. Once the softboot was reached my computer locked up hard! The Voodoo3 ran fine without the Vimage card though but would probably be pretty useless for games without a G3 chip.

1/21/2000 Hacking the Voodoo3 Pref file to get different resolutions: Yann sent me some info that may be of use to you. He says you can open the Voodoo3 pref file found in your pref folder and change the default resolutions and make other setting changes. He did this because he found that his system was picking a resolution not supported by his monitor and this was why he could not use the Voodoo3 on his 6400 at first. Thanks Yann.

[> How do you hack the pref file to get what you want? Thanks for the info I
> forgot you had a Sonnet card :)


This is not a hack, 3dfx created a file referencing all resolutions and frequencies the V3 can use, and you can specify on this file wich settings you prefer and want as default, which could be used (but not as 1st choice) and which resolution you don't want.

All you have to do is to copy the "Voodoo3ModePrefs" file with beta 10 drivers to the "preferences" folder. Then open it (using simpletext, word or codewarrior (prefered)). Follow instructions on header. After reboot and ZPram the Voodoo 3 will choose the 640*480 resolution at default resolution you selected.

Yann.]

3/3/2000 New Sonnet 500Mhz L2 G3 for the 6500 works with the Voodoo3: I found some info on Accelerate Your Mac's web site about Sonnets new 500Mhz card working with the Voodoo3. Later Tiong sent me some more info he got from Stefan who wrote the letter to Accelerate Your Mac. Thanks guys.

From XLR8

[Sonnet L2G3/500 Solves Video Card Issues: The latest Sonnet entry in the Owner's CPU Upgrade Reviews database from 6500 owner Stefan Jeglinski reports that problems he saw with the G3/400 upgrade and PCI video cards (Voodoo3 or Rage128) were solved by the new design G3/500 card.]

From Tiong

[Hi Thomas,
I have just received an e-mail from one of the guys who tried my display preference file to try to get his V3 working with his Sonnet without the L2G3 bug.

He has good news for 64/6500 users who want both the L2G3 and V3 upgrades. Below is his message and my comments below that:

"I'm pleased to report that the Sonnet 500 card displays none of the freeze issues that the 400 card showed (in 6500). Works well with a dual monitor or single monitor setup with either an ATI RagePro or a Voodoo3 2000. I don't hang out too much at the 3dfx forum, but if you still do, please feel free to pass this info on. If anybody wants to contact me for more info, feel free to forward my address.
Regards,
Stefan"

My thoughts:
I think that it is possible that it is not just the 500 L2 G3. I'm speculating that recently shipped Sonnets (which is smaller in overall size, and shorter heatsink - no longer touches 64MB RAM modules) have been redesigned to be more compatible. However, I may be wrong and it could just be Crescendo 1.4.1?

Also, notice that he mentioned ATI's Rage Pro, and not Rage 128. I will ask him if he had any experience with the Rage 128 chips (Orion, etc.), although judging from ATI's recent comments, I'd doubt that the Rage 128 based cards will work. Regards,
Tiong]

[Hi Tom,

Thought that maybe you'd like an update to some questions I had asked Stefan. Here's my questions and his answers:

1. Is your Sonnet 500 of a newer design? I have noticed that the newer
Sonnet cards are smaller in size than the older ones. Also, the newer Sonnet
cards have heatsinks that no longer touch the RAM, especially if you have
64MB modules installed.

I no longer have the 400 card (got rid of that thing in a hurry), but from memory... Seemed to me the 500 card and the 400 card had about the same form factor. The 500 also seems to be slightly better about not touching the RAM, but I would guess that the difference was small enough that it was just a manufacturing variance, not a design change. What I -did- notice was that (even obscured by that humongous heatsink) the electronic design was -substantially- different between the 400 and the 500. Different components, different layout. I don't know why this should be, I would have expected the boards to be the same, the only difference being a 10x clock ratio rather than an 8x. Hard to believe the clock-multiplier required -that- much different of a design. The time frame for me receiving the two cards (3 actually, I was on my second 400) was such that I found it unlikely that I had a freshly designed and built 500, but who knows? The fact that the 500 worked but that a 400 and a modified 400 card (modified for me by Sonnet) did not, and that the 2 cards are plainly different electronically, has led me to the conclusion that the 400 design is somehow defective. Hopefully my return of -2- 400 cards will help Sonnet realize in some small way that they need to own up. I would dearly love to know the return rate on the 400 cards. I'm trying to talk MacGurus into letting me know that info, but I kinda doubt they'll clue me in :-) But I would also say that MacGurus has been nothing short of spectacular in holding my return open while I went though all this madness. Good outfit.

2. The old (very hard to find) ATI Rage Pros worked with Sonnet's L2G3. I
wonder if your Rage Pro is a newer card, like the Xclaim VR plus (8MB).

What I have precisely is one of those 8Meg OEM Rage Pros from SmallDog. I never saw it identified as a VR plus, but frankly, I don't know -what- it is defined as. The ATI installer actually doesn't recognize the card as anything other than ATI, but the ATI control panel and extensions apparently recognized it fine. One of my tests BTW was an -exhaustive- review of every piece of ATI software I could find. I think I documented about 8-9 different sets of ATI software I tried. Of course, the key here was that the exact same freeze happened with the Voodoo card as well (all ATI extensions banished, even with the RageII on-board chip still there). I'm pretty convinced now the ATI was never the culprit (which I'm sure will disappoint some :-).

3. Did you try a Rage 128 based card, like the Rage Orion? ATI recently
asked all Rage 128 based 64/6500 customers to return/not use the cards as
they have found a 60% failure rate with 64/6500 systems!

Well, that's pretty damn interesting, but no, I didn't try such a card. I'll be happy to answer any other questions you or anybody else have.
Regards,
Stefan

And here's some of my thoughts:
I had asked Stefan about the design of the Sonnet as I have noticed that my "newer" Sonnet is of a very different design from my old Sonnet. Physically, the overall dimensions of the new Sonnet is slightly smaller. Also, the heatsink no longer touches the 64MB RAM, and the placement of all supporting chips/components have been drastically changed.

The reason I had asked about this is because I think this may be one of the contributing factors to my success with V3 using only a single monitor, since my weird display pref file didn't work for anyone.

Also, during my own troubleshooting of the L2G3 bug, I had switched my Sonnet while still using the dual monitor trick. It was a little while after I had switched that I had realized that I can successfully use the V3 with just one monitor. However, at that time, my older Sonnet had already been sold and I couldn't test to see if it was the Sonnet that made the difference.

And speaking of that, I was wondering, if there is any possibility for you to set up a test of an older vs. newer Sonnet. If you don't have time, I am willing to do the test for you but I think I'll need you help in acquiring a loan unit of the older Sonnet from Sonnet. What are your thoughts?

Sorry to have bombarded you with so many long e-mails this few days!
Thanks! : )
Regards,
Tiong]

Tiong may be on to something here. Its possible that Sonnet had to totally redesign their cards to work with the 10x G3 CPU's and this change fixed the issues with the Voodoo3? Or, maybe they just found some issues and fixed them which made the Voodoo3 work? Any comments from other recently acquired Sonnet L2 G3 cards are appreciated :) Thanks.

4/14/2000 Voodoo3 Beta12 drivers out!: I just got the word that the latest Voodoo3 drivers are out. Go get them you game freaks! I already got mine :)

9/22/2000 Voodoo3 PC BIOS's posted: Here is a link to a page where the host has placed many versions of the Voodoo3 BIOS for those of you that lost yours and want to reflash your card back to PC. He really did it for PC user to get the latest ROM image for their cards but it works for us as well :)

New ROM flasher for SGRAM Voodoo3's?: I received some info from Michael on a new V3 ROM flasher app that is supposed to work on V3 cards with SGRAM installed. It seems that 3dfx upgraded their V3 cards from SDRAM to SGRAM which is faster but they did not upgrade the flasher app so many Mac users are not able to flash their new V3's. This utility seems to have come from out of no where as even the site hosting the app doesn't know where he got it? Anyway Michael says it worked great for him and speculates that 3dfx made it but didn't want to show support for the unsupported V3 since the V5 started shipping. Makes some sense and looking at 3dfx'x track record, it could be true? Well, here is his info and please let me know if it works for your SGRAM upgraded V3. Thanks.

NOTE: Several people have asked whether the Voodoo2 card would work in the 6400 itself since I only talk about it in my chassis. It will work fine in the 6400 and I did try it with no issues at all. Even though it is about 1.5" longer then the 6400 spec for PCI cards, it still fits. Also the Voodoo2 card is not a full blown video card. It only does 3D (and very well!) and leaves 2D for some other card to run. You can run the passthru cable to your stock video out and it will run fine but you still won't have accelerated 2D video. Pairing this card with another card like ATI's is a good choice, specially one of the older Rage PRO models. You'll get the speed of the Voodoo2 (which is as fast or faster then a Rage128) and all the compatibility. Right now both the Rage 128 cards and the Voodoo3 card are having issues with G3 accelerated 6400/6500's. Without the G3 they are usless becasue the stock CPU cannot send enough data to feed them. The Voodoo2 with the stock video of the 6500 or another video card in the 6400 is a very wise choice.

3DFX releases generic Voodoo 2 drivers!: 3DFX, the makers of 3D chips that utilize Glide technology, have released Mac specific drivers for free for their family of Voodoo 2 chips. This means that you can buy just about any PC Voodoo 2 card and run it in your Mac. Remember it has to be a PCI card and not an AGP card. I am thinking of getting one myself but I also hear that Voodoo 3 drivers are in the works! {The link for the 3dfx drivers no longer works. 3dfx has removed the link from their site. I posted the drivers on my own site now :) Your welcome!}

Update on Voodoo2 card in my setup: I bought a Voodoo2 card from 3DFX and it is working great! The card is 8" long so I assumed it wouldn't fit in my 6400 and installed it in my PCI chassi. The pass thru connector is going to my ATI card which is in the 6400. Here is a letter I wrote to Mike Breeden of Accelerate Your Mac about my findings.

[Hi Mike, I wanted to let you know I just got a Voodoo2 PC card from 3DFX and used their Mac drivers and the Mesa3DFXengine and it works great on my 6400! Before I go any further I want to let 6400 users know that the 3DFX Voodoo2 card is an 8" card and probably won't fit in the 6400 but I have a PCI expansion chassi hooked to my 6400 and it fits fine in there. Possibly some other vendors cards based on the 3DFX chip might be shorter and fit? I also have Vimages 320/1M G3 card which I'm sure helps feed the Voodoo2 card :)

I have a 15" monitor on the stock port and a 17" monitor on the Voodoo2 card connected to an old ATI VR RageII card. I never knew what I was missing without these fast graphics cards. I can't beleive the differance. I have only 2 problems so far and one of them I already fixed with help from your site.

The first was getting Quake3 Test to run on the Voodoo2. It kept reverting to the ATI card no matter how many times I selected Voodoo OpenGL in the prefs. Finally I saw the fix was to remove the OpenGL RendererATI which I beleive is what links OpenGL to the ATI card. With this removed and the Mesa3DFXengine installed I can now play Quake3 Test. It plays great at 640x480 and even 800x600 with everything turned on but in 800x600 the screen is off center to the right? I didn't want to adjust it because I normally use 800x600 and didn't want to keep adjusting it around. 640x480 needed a slight adjustment but since the monitor I have remembers settings for each resolution I don't have to touch it whenever it changes now :)

The second and more problematic issue is using it with a USB card installed (from ADS). I seem to remember readers on your site mentioning that some games kept freezing for a few seconds off and on during play. I found this to be true with Unreal. It only moves for a few seconds and then freezes then starts again and then freezes over and over. I can fix it by just removing anything related to USB but now I can't use my USB mouse. I have to reboot to play 3DFX games or it will be completely unplayable :( I am using Apples latest USB drivers 1.3a4. I was wondering if anyone has written to you with a fix for this?
Thanks, Tom]

He wrote back that he did not need to disable the OpenGLrendererATI extension in his system but he did not have the Voodoo2 card connected to an ATI card as I do. Maybe this made the difference? Also I am having the pausing in games with Quake3 Test also which is fixed by removing the USB drivers. I don't know if its an issue with the drivers or with the bandwidth of the PCI bus and all these cards I have attached?

12/15/2000 Voodoo2 drivers removed from 3dfx's website?: A reader informed me that the link I had in my Voodoo2 info to 3dfx's website, for their Voodoo2 beta drivers, was broken. I posted the drivers on my site and also placed a link to them in the Downloads section on the side bar.